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Do you lead like Abraham Lincoln? This is the final conversation about the Top 10 Leadership Qualities of Abraham Lincoln. Reflections on the book Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin This episode covers:

• Step out of the way when necessary for the cause
• Loneliness and melancholy are normal for exceptional leaders
• Invite Young Leaders to the Table.

Podcast Transcript

Joshua MacLeod:
I don’t know at what point I transitioned from, “I have to do this myself and learn this myself,” to, “I’m going to let somebody else take the blows in this stupid tax, and I’m just going to learn from them. But books are phenomenal ways to do that, where you can just really learn from somebody else.

Podcast Announcer:
Welcome to the Growability Podcast, teaching business and nonprofit leaders a more excellent way to run a business. Visit growability.com for your leadership, coaching, consultation, and business collaboration needs. This is the third and final episode in our three-part series, sharing the top ten leadership qualities of Abraham Lincoln. Let’s pick up with Joshua and Bernie, as they discuss lessons seven through ten. Here are your hosts, Joshua MacLeod and Bernie Anderson.

Joshua MacLeod:
All right, number seven, this one is, step out of the way if necessary for the cause. Abraham Lincoln didn’t have a really successful run of elections leading up to the presidency. He had several failed elections before he actually became elected to be the president of the United States. You have the Republican Party and you have the Democratic Party. And so, Abraham Lincoln’s on the Republican Party and there’s another person running for this seat. I think it was the Senate seat. I can’t remember exactly what seat he was running for. The other side had 49 votes or something like that, that was in the other party. He had 48 votes. And then, there was this guy who had three votes that was in his same party, in his same ticket. They did several rounds of ballots, and these three people, they just weren’t going to budge. In order for the party to win the result, the only way that it would be possible is to take the guy who had 48 votes and give all of those votes to the person that had three votes. So that the party could win.

Bernie Anderson:
Wow.

Joshua MacLeod:
And so, in this case, Abraham Lincoln did that. He took all of his votes, he gave them to the other person in the party so that the party could win. When I heard that, I was listening to the book and I was like, pause, “Wow.” Step out of the way, if it’s necessary for the cause. Sometimes it’s critical to humbly, let someone else take your place, and let your future have a higher ceiling. Abraham Lincoln was like, “I’m not in this for the short game. I’m not in this for power. I’m in this for the long haul, I want to serve people. I’m going to let the party win this one so that we can gain some ground. Sometimes you just really got to step out of the way and do what’s right for the organization. Not just progress your own cause.”

Bernie Anderson:
Yeah. Joshua, do you think that the ability to do that has something to do with your clarity of vision, that you’re about something bigger than you, right? Good vision is not about you. It’s not about… Your vision isn’t for yourself. It’s for something bigger than you. It seems like you would have to have that clarity before you’d even be able to step out of the way for the cause, right?

Joshua MacLeod:
Fundamentally. Abraham Lincoln’s thinking about slavery, he’s thinking about civil war, he’s thinking about all of the factors that are in the country that are rife. And he is like, “Somebody has to stand up against these things. And if I can’t do it, but the cause is doing it, I need to get out of the way.” I think true vision in any organization has to be about something bigger than you, has to be about a cause greater than you, and I don’t think you can make decisions that are bigger than you if you’re not doing something that’s bigger than you.

Bernie Anderson:
Yeah. Really that’s my takeaway right there for this piece is having vision is going to enable you to step out of the way when necessary, because it’s not about you. You’re about something bigger. So, that’s great.

Joshua MacLeod:
Number eight. Eight points from Abraham Lincoln, loneliness and melancholy are normal for exceptional leaders. When you think about an org chart and you’re like, “Who’s the person at the top, and then who are the next people down, and then who are the next people down? The org chart is actually best represented completely flipped upside down. And the question is, how much weight is on the person that is on the bottom that holds all of the responsibility for all of these things?

Joshua MacLeod:
So when you look at Abraham Lincoln and he’s got the entire nation of responsibility on him. It’s like, okay, here’s my cabinet that’s standing on top of me, and then here’s the house and the Senate, and then here’s all the generals and all of these people. The weight of leadership often is crushing. It’s difficult, it’s challenging. So we expect somebody to be a leader that never gets depressed, that never feels lonely, that never has bad days. Melancholy and loneliness are absolutely normal for exceptional leaders. There was a season where Abraham Lincoln faced several deaths. Family members and friends and people who were very close to him died and he would have these seasons of depression. But what happened is he let those seasons of depression develop deep empathy for other people and if we have a season where just, why does it have to be so hard?

Joshua MacLeod:
I was talking with this leader, Larry Warren, he had this organization called African Leadership and they trained 40,000 leaders in Africa or something like this. And I was sitting with Larry and I was saying, “Larry!” I’m a young guy. I’m 28 years old. And I’m like, “Why does it have to be so hard? We’re doing good stuff here. Why does this have to be so hard? This is so hard. Why? I’ve worked in things that aren’t this hard. Why does this have to be so hard?” and Larry looked at me and he said, “I don’t know. And I don’t like it, but that’s the way it is.”

Joshua MacLeod:
And I just was like, “Oh, so it’s not like I’m doing something wrong.” sometimes really, really good things are really, really hard. And if you feel sad about the brokenness of the world, that means you’re somewhat connected to the brokenness of the world. If you look at the Beatitudes, the second Beatitude is, “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. And so seasons of loneliness, seasons of melancholy, depression, that’s actually not uncommon. If you look at Abraham Lincoln, the things though that separated him out as an incredible leader is his mood never impacted his decision. So it didn’t matter how he felt, the decisions that he made were based on the right thing to do. For moving at the speed of people, for accomplishing beautiful objectives, he didn’t let his mood determine the decision. He was very rational and separated the melancholy from the meaningful, incredible person.

Bernie Anderson:
Yeah. I think that’s the key right there, Joshua. What you just said about his mood never impact his decision. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling melancholy, but I think the thing that sets apart somebody who’s really going to lead well, is that at the end of the day, they still make the decisions that they need to make, not based on how they feel, but based on what’s right. On what is going to make sense for the cause for the vision. I think that’s really good.

Joshua MacLeod:
Yeah, I don’t have to be happy about pulling the weed. I don’t have to be happy about pouring the water. I don’t have to be happy about planting the seed. I don’t have to be happy about putting the fertilizer on the thing to see something grow beautiful. Abraham Lincoln was pretty melancholy.

Bernie Anderson:
Yeah, he was.

Joshua MacLeod:
He was not. Even reading his biography was like, that was really hard and sad, but when it comes down to it, golly, what a legacy, what an impact. Okay. The ninth point.

Bernie Anderson:
Yeah. Number nine.

Joshua MacLeod:
Number nine. Pursue excellence, not acceptance. Abraham Lincoln was absolutely excellent in everything that he did, but he was super comfortable in his own shoes. Abraham Lincoln was the opposite of, “I’m not going to ask that question because I might look stupid.” He would ask the question and didn’t care whether he looked stupid because he wanted to know the knowledge underneath the thing. I’ve got a note here, it’s more important to be educated than fashionable. So we think that to raise the ranks in society, you need to drive this, you need to look like this, you need to X, Y, Z. No. What you need to do is actually be educated to have options where other people just have copycat solutions, you actually have well-thought educated decisions. You spend your time more learning how to learn than you do, spending your time, learning how to look.

Joshua MacLeod:
If I’m so worried about what I look like, I’m not spending enough time learning how to learn. And so another note that I have here is that your capacity to learn will determine your future success. The moment that you stop learning and start judging and critiquing, you’re putting a limit on the amount of people that you can serve or the height of where you can go in your organization. Learning is fundamentally connected with humility. Abraham Lincoln was somebody that regardless of his position, he continued to learn. He didn’t see his position as a privilege. He saw his position as an opportunity to even get better and learn more and grow. What an example, what an incredible example.

Bernie Anderson:
That’s great. Yeah. I love that.

Joshua MacLeod:
Number 10. So the 10th thing that I learned from Team of Rivals about Abraham Lincoln was to invite young leaders to the table. Abraham Lincoln surrounded himself with the future and he let them in the room where it happened. He let them watch. He let them see. He was continually looking out at people with potential, particularly young leaders. And he would invite them to the conversation I wrote down here in my notes, delight in children, if you want to have a delightful future because the people that you delight in when they’re young become delightful people. He could have looked at the young people and thought, “Oh, these people are adding too much drama. I need to really think about my important decision right here with the smartest people in the room.” He didn’t do that. He invited young people to the table.

Joshua MacLeod:
Another note I have is cultivate relationships with people half your age so that you have strong relationships for your entire life because the pool of people if you’re going to live long, the pool of people that are going to live along with you start dropping off. But if you are cultivating relationships with the people that are half your age and delighting in them, then you’re going to have really strong relationships your whole life.

Bernie Anderson:
I love that. I love that.

Joshua MacLeod:
Really, really cool.

Bernie Anderson:
I think it’s important for us as we get older, to be just a raving fan of the younger generation. I love that advice. And I think that as we help each other get better, that’s actually leadership as opposed to, “Ah, those kids these days.” or whatever.

Joshua MacLeod:
It’s challenging though. In order to work with generations that are different than you, you have to do two things as an older person. One, is you have to get out of your comfort zone. And the second thing you have to do is you have to be a really good listener. It’s not just about, “Hey, I’m going to go tell all of these kids, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” you actually have to listen and see. I’ve got some incredible examples of people in my life that do this. My dad and my father-in-law, I was over yesterday, just listening to my dad, to my kids, just talk about normal stuff. The kids are just going on and on and on and on about, “And this is my homework, and this is this.” My dad was just like, “Wow. Oh wow. That’s so cool. Oh.” and it’s the delight of kids to be listened to by somebody that’s older. I think it’s easier for older people to critique the stupidity of youth. It’s easier to do that than it is to listen and encourage people that are growing.

Bernie Anderson:
These 10 things are great. I mean, I have this book that’s on my slate. It’ll probably… I’ve got two things to finish before I start on it, but it’s coming because I’m looking forward to read it myself. But…

Joshua MacLeod:
Incredible great writing Doris Kearns Goodwin. Team of Rivals. Incredible writer.

Bernie Anderson:
That’s so good. So all right, my friend.

Joshua MacLeod:
And then remember we have our new end of the show here. So remember…

Bernie Anderson:
You’re doing better than you think. You have more potential than you know. And thank you for growing with Growability.

Joshua MacLeod:
Oh, I love it. There you go.

Bernie Anderson:
Sounds lit.

Podcast Announcer:
Thank you for listening to the Growability podcast. The mission of Growability is to equip leaders to flourish in their life and work by developing vision, rhythm, and community to discover if there is a more excellent way to run your business, visit growability.com and speak with a certified Growability coach. Bernie and Joshua are also available for speaking engagements, workshops, and conferences. Subscribing to this podcast helps Growability equip leaders throughout the world, and we appreciate your support.